Who is held accountable if a war crime is committed in Iran?

+ Accessibility links Skip to main content Keyboard shortcuts for audio player Open Navigation Menu --> Newsletters NPR Shop Close Navigation Menu Home News Expand/collapse submenu for News National World Politics Business Health Science Climate Race Culture Expand/collapse submenu for Culture Books Movies Television Pop Culture Food Art & Design Performing Arts Life Kit Gaming Music Expand/collapse submenu for Music Tiny Desk New Music Friday All Songs Considered Music Features Live Sessions The Best Music of 2025 Podcasts & Shows Expand/collapse submenu for Podcasts & Shows Daily Morning Edition Weekend Edition Saturday Weekend Edition Sunday All Things Considered Up First Here & Now NPR Politics Podcast Featured Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me! Fresh Air Wild Card with Rachel Martin It's Been a Minute Planet Money Get NPR+ More Podcasts & Shows Search Newsletters NPR Shop Tiny Desk New Music Friday All Songs Considered Music Features Live Sessions The Best Music of 2025 About NPR Diversity Support Careers Press Ethics Who is held accountable if a war crime is committed in Iran? NPR's Scott Detrow speaks with international law expert Gabor Rona about attacks on civilian infrastructure in the Iran conflict and how they may constitute war crimes. World Who is held accountable if a war crime is committed in Iran? April 1, 20264:48 PM ET Heard on All Things Considered By Henry Larson , Scott Detrow , John Ketchum Who is held accountable if a war crime is committed in Iran? Listen &middot; 8:16 8:16 Transcript Toggle more options Download Embed Embed "> <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/nx-s1-5766235/nx-s1-9713102" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player"> Transcript NPR's Scott Detrow speaks with international law expert Gabor Rona about attacks on civilian infrastructure in the Iran conflict and how they may constitute war crimes. Sponsor Message SCOTT DETROW, HOST: President Trump has repeatedly threatened to destroy civilian infrastructure across Iran if the country doesn't come to the negotiating table, including the country's desalination plants, vital for drinking water in the arid Gulf. This week, Kuwaiti authorities said Iran had attacked one of their desalination plants.

+ Deliberately attacking civilian infrastructure is a war crime under international law. So how can allegations of war crimes fly by without accountability? Gabor Rona is going to tackle this big question with us. He directs the Law and Armed Conflict Project at Cardoza Law School and previously was a legal adviser to the Red Cross. Welcome to the show. GABOR RONA: Thank you. DETROW: I want to start with this. Let's hear something from White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt, who was asked about the president's comments, and here's what she said. (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING) KAROLINE LEAVITT: Of course, this administration and the United States Armed Forces will always act within the confines of the law. But with respect to achieving the full objectives of Operation Epic Fury, President Trump is going to move forward unabated. DETROW: That's what the press secretary says. The Pentagon has repeatedly said, the United States does not deliberately target civilians, and yet the president is talking about attacking a desalination plant. Would that be a war crime? RONA: Absolutely, Scott, both under international law and U.S. law. We have a War Crimes Act that prohibits precisely this kind of thing. It would also be a violation of laws against terrorism. It's prohibited to engage in attacks in armed conflict where the primary purpose is to spread terror among the civilian population. If you're targeting a desalination plant, then that would be an act of terrorism. DETROW: Help us understand a little bit more just 'cause I think you cannot overexplain this enough, right? Like, here's an example. In the early days of the war, it seems like the United States accidentally bombed a girls school. What is the difference between something like that and deliberately attacking civilian infrastructure like a desalination plant? RONA: So the difference is that even though one might have been mistaken and the other intentional, under U.S. law, both intentional and mistaken attacks that aren't pursuant to due diligence can be war crimes. DETROW: So U.S. law is clear-cut on this. International law norm seems to be clear-cut on this. Is that a fair way to understand this? RONA: I think that's right. DETROW: Given that, what do you make of the fact that both sides in this war have been so blatant and straightforward about targeting and attacking civilian infrastructure like this? RONA: One of the things that's well settled in international law is that a violation by one side does not justify a violation on the other side. The moral reason why the U.S. should not follow Iran's lead is simply, do we want to determine our moral standing according to the standards of those that routinely violate international law? DETROW: I want to play another clip of a White House official for you. This is something that top adviser Stephen Miller said to CNN earlier this year. It's a comment I have thought a lot about in a lot of contexts. Here, he was talking about the U.S. military seizing Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro. (SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING) STEPHEN MILLER: You can talk all you want about international niceties and everything else. But we live in a world in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power. DETROW: I believe Miller was also talking about, you know, Greenland and whether the U.S. was going to move to seize Greenland in that interview. But the broader point he was making was, the United States is the most powerful country in the world, and if it wants to do something, nobody can stop it. What do you make of that? RONA: Well, you know, at one point, Germany was the most powerful country in the world. And as a result of Germany's aggressive conduct, there was a war. As a result of that war, there were war crime tribunals. And at Nuremberg, German war criminals were tried fairly. Many were found guilty. Some received long prison sentences. Others were executed. Similarly for war criminals in the Far East after the Second World War. Bottom line, Stephen Miller doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't understand that the United States is merely one cog - albeit a very powerful cog - but still one cog throughout a long legal history - that states have worked hard and for many years to establish, to prevent and to punish war crimes. The United States cannot make them go away. I think it is, first of all, false, and second of all, very dangerous for Americans' own interests to claim that the only thing that holds us back is the limits of our own power. The world doesn't work that way. DETROW: President Trump said something similar around that time, talking to The New York Times. He said he was only restrained by his own morals when it came to what he felt he could or couldn't do. Given that - and I do want to make sure we've got you in full context - given what you said before, I'm curious, do you worry the United States is veering toward the direction of, you know, as you put it, World War II Germany in terms of some of the decisions that the president and top officials are making? RONA: Well, yes and no. I think if the administration were to have its own way, then that's exactly where we would be headed. But the world is a very different place now than it was in 1939. It's true that after the Second World War, the U.N. Security Council was designated to be the ultimate arbiter in matters of peace and security. And it has done a fair job in that respect in many contexts. There's been so much in the realm of law and accountability that has been established in response to the Second World War. The world is a very different place now than it was when Nazi Germany had its way. DETROW: Let me bring this back to the specific instance that we started this conversation with. If the United States goes forward and bombs critical energy infrastructure, bombs desalination plants, the types of infrastructure that civilians need to live in a region like the Middle East, what do you think would happen next? What would you want to see happen next? RONA: The U.S. War Crimes Act has no statute of limitation for crimes that result in death. Now, obviously, there's not going to be any accountability during this administration, but there could very well be accountability, even under U.S. law, in the next administration or sometime in the future. Aside from that, there are countries that are lining up right now - Spain and Italy, for example, just in the last couple of days, have said they refused to allow U.S. flyovers in connection with the Iran conflict. This is international law in action. These states are in compliance with their obligations under the Geneva Conventions. What I think will happen if the U.S. goes ahead with a very deliberate series of war crimes is that you will see other states finally lining up explicitly to draw that line in the sand and say, no, we will not tolerate this, we will not cooperate with this. And that, I think, will also eventually mean that those countries could commence prosecutions for violations of the laws of armed conflict against Americans. DETROW: That's Gabor Rona, director of the Law and Armed Conflict Project at Cardoza Law School. Thank you so much for talking to us. RONA: My pleasure. DETROW: We reached out to the White House about Rona's comments specifically about attacking civilian infrastructure being a war crime and comparing the Trump administration to Nazi Germany. In a statement, the White House pointed to Iran, saying the country had committed, quote, "egregious human rights abuses for 47 years" and that President Trump's military campaign is, quote, "making the entire region safer and more stable." Copyright &copy; 2026 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript text may be revised to correct errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org may be edited after its original broadcast or publication. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record. 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