Accessibility links Skip to main content Keyboard shortcuts for audio player Open Navigation Menu --> Newsletters NPR Shop Get NPR+ Close Navigation Menu Home News Expand/collapse submenu for News National World Politics Business Health Science Climate Race Culture Expand/collapse submenu for Culture Books Movies Television Pop Culture Food Art & Design Performing Arts Life Kit Gaming Music Expand/collapse submenu for Music Tiny Desk New Music Friday All Songs Considered Music Features Live Sessions Podcasts & Shows Expand/collapse submenu for Podcasts & Shows Daily Morning Edition Weekend Edition Saturday Weekend Edition Sunday All Things Considered Up First Here & Now NPR Politics Podcast Featured Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me! Fresh Air Wild Card with Rachel Martin It's Been a Minute Embedded Get NPR+ More Podcasts & Shows Search Newsletters NPR Shop Get NPR+ Tiny Desk New Music Friday All Songs Considered Music Features Live Sessions About NPR Diversity Support Careers Press Ethics How Trump's foreign policy is affecting America's relationship with its allies NPR's Leila Fadel asks New York Times White House correspondent Peter Baker for his analysis of President Trump's foreign policy. Politics How Trump's foreign policy is affecting America's relationship with its allies August 24, 20264:43 AM ET Heard on Morning Edition Leila Fadel How Trump's foreign policy is affecting America's relationship with its allies Listen · 4:01 4:01 Transcript Toggle more options Download Embed Embed "> <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/nx-s1-5940692/nx-s1-9898000" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player"> Transcript NPR's Leila Fadel asks New York Times White House correspondent Peter Baker for his analysis of President Trump's foreign policy. Sponsor Message Transcript
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
President Trump prides himself on being a dealmaker in business and now in government. But so far, that dealmaking skill he brags about is not working with Iran. For more on Trump's transactional foreign policy, we've called up New York Times chief White House correspondent Peter Baker. Good morning, Peter. Thanks for being with us.
PETER BAKER: Oh, good morning. How are you?
FADEL: I'm doing well. So one of Trump's frequent tactics is to make big threats to get what he wants out of the country he's negotiating with, but what he's also frequently done is back down, and he's done that repeatedly with Iran. Does that change how foreign governments are interacting with the Trump administration?
BAKER: Well, I think it does, yeah. I think that they've come to understand Trump's strategies here. They've seen him in action enough times that they kind of tend to discount some of the most blustery, most bombastic threats that he makes. But that doesn't mean he doesn't come - follow through at some points. We've just seen that in the last few days with these tariffs in Canada.
And we heard Mark Carney, the new prime minister - not so new anymore - prime minister of Canada say that they are at war with the United States economically over these tariffs. And so there are moments when he follows through and it's - it creates quite a situation, even with allies.
FADEL: Does Carney's reaction mark a shift? I mean, we saw at the start of Trump's term a lot of allies flattering and publicly praising Trump - even when he's threatening them - to get what they want. Is that still the case with allies today, or are you seeing more leaders pushing back?
BAKER: Not with all of them anymore. I think they do - some of them have come to experience this and recognize that flattery and, you know, fawning over him and doing everything he wants isn't necessarily a strategy for success. He's not going to necessarily back off the things that he pushes on just because of that. We see that with Giorgia Meloni, for instance, the prime minister of Italy, hard-right figure, but has decided that she's not going to put up with some of the things Trump is doing anymore. Obviously, with Mark Carney, and I think people have taken the cue from him on that.
FADEL: You wrote recently about Trump's pattern of threatening traditional allies and befriending traditional enemies. Do you have a clear sense of what effect that's had on the U.S. reputation worldwide?
BAKER: Well, it's put that - turned everything upside down, right? You know, for 80 years, the United States led an international order that itself created in the aftermath of World War II, a network of partnerships and alliances around the world that benefited the United States, but Trump believes that these alliances and partnerships, in fact, have not benefited the United States, that the allies have taken advantage of them.
And his hostility toward these alliances and toward these allies - like Canada, for instance, like deciding he might threaten to bomb Oman, which has been a friend in the Middle East - these have up upended the calculations that leaders make at this point. They no longer look at America in the same way that they did as a reliable friend. They look at America as a volatile and uncertain source of instability because they can't know from time - day in and day out whether the friendship lasts or whether they might get - be on the receiving end of one of these hostile blasts.
FADEL: Will that be a long-term rupture? Is that something we'll see about the U.S. reputation beyond the Trump administration?
BAKER: I think so. I think it's going to take a number of years to see where this ends up because I think after one - with one term, a lot of foreign partners said, well, that was an aberration, but with two terms, they look at this and say, this is America now. This is not just about Trump. This is about, you know, how America is repositioning itself in the world. And so, you know, when Biden came in briefly between the two Trump terms and said America's back, in fact what foreign leaders and foreign interlocutors took from that is, not really.
It can change with each election. And so they're looking to 2028 to see what happens, but it's not going to simply snap back the way it was.
FADEL: Peter Baker is the chief White House correspondent for The New York Times. Thank you.
BAKER: Thank you.
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